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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2015 6:58:37 GMT
My fellow Nosferatu, the Order of Montgomery has directly challenged His Highness Prince Richtor to clarify his political position when it comes to the Inner Circle and Imperator factions. It seems to me that it might be a wise course of action to clarify our clan's position on this matter incase things come to a head - are we as a clan going to take a position on this matter, or attempt to remain neutral?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2015 7:05:39 GMT
I have it on good authority that the Ruba Damma are hardcore loyalists, and that they're doing everything in their power to undermine Myrmidon Pickens. As for the Order of Montgomery the matter is under discussion - technically it doesn't have a position yet. Seems pretty clear that Clan Gangrel backs the Imperator, but a lot of people are taking a "wait and see" approach on the issue, or at least keeping their mouths shut about who's side their on. Might be a good idea if we started figuring out who's with the Inner Circle and who's not. Information like that could be very valuable to certain parties if things go south.
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Post by Carrick Driscol on Sept 14, 2015 18:09:01 GMT
Bryce, I quite agree we should begin forming a list of who stands where and perhaps who might be flexable, bought or manipulated. Such information might prove valuable.
Herschal and all my other brothers here. I suppose the time has come for us to have this discussion. But first let me put some stuff to think about before we make any decision.
The Nosferatu as a Clan have traditionally remained neutral in politics unless paid for our support/information (I still view this as neutrality as either party could pay for such information).
It was Imperator Karsh who convinced our brother Nosferatu Prince Stanford Warwick to break with our typical clan solidarity and divide the Antitribu (Sabbat) and us the Camarilla.
Though there was a break in our clan we still deal equitably with our brothers in the Anarchs.
When I was young, even though it was just the formation of the Camarilla we were viewed as Lesser than many clans. The Toreador, Lasambra, Tzmitze, Brujah, Ventrue mainly deemed us Low Clans. Not their equals. It was the formation of the Camarilla and the Inner Circle that raised us up and gave us what is rightfully ours. Stated equality to all others. It is under this that domains have formed across Clan Boundries and brought us to the modern world. Through it all WE, the Nosferatu have provided information and political power to those who offered us the right price.
The position of Imperator was created to deal with the increasing threats from the Sabbat, hunters wielding True Faith, and our own internal strife (though this doubles over on the Justicars duties). Since taking power the Imperator has made it clear he feels that the Justicariate is ineffective, unable to succeed in ending the war with the Sabbat. He has also made it clear that he feels the Justicars and their servants the Archons are imposing on the Traditions and overstepping their bounds and interfering in Local issues and taking the power of the Princes from them.
Now, we have seen the effects of both in our city. We have had a Archon come to our city and implement the questioning of those here. A act that can be seen many ways. If you are innocent it can be seen as a violation. If you have been skirting stability and causing some of the Chaos that brought him to town definitely a threat. But also consider the alternative. The disapearance and death of a Prince, repeated large scale masquerade breaches, Black Hand attacks, a Blackhand spy in our midst. Our senschal at the time dealing with the Black Hand and Sabbat for their own twisted needs and then becoming Red Disted. Disappearance of other Kindred in the city. War with Lupines, entropy spirit, the Anarchs seeking war with us... I personally view it as lucky that the Justicar himself didn't come in and just start wiping anyone out who seemed suspicious.
Then we have the Myrmidian. He was already in town. He himself is directly responsible for most of the disappearances and sacrifices of the missing Kindred. His hand may not have delivered the killing stroke but it was by his hand that it purposefully came to be. He was granted clemency and named a Myrmidian to balance the influence of the Justicariate since Red Deer has become visible on the international stage. The Myrmidian has definitely interfered with local politics and thrown his weight around.
The Imperator says the Justicariate are ineffective against the Sabbat hence the Justicars strong desire to be a determining factor in the Calgary war and prove this wrong. Yet at the same time this is actually the stated mandate and duties of the Imperator when the position was created.
Both groups are fighting for the same thing. Both are stating their goal is upholding the Traditions and the rights of those who hold Praxis, Domain and those under them. It is a difference about how to do it. in Alberta it can be viewed as NDP and Conservative. They both wanted to make Alberta a better stronger province, it is just how they go about it.
The Imperator if he wins has given no view on how he would decide things, right now it is him at the top and no others. With the Inner Circle there is a member from each Clan and each one gets equal say.
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Post by Carrick Driscol on Sept 14, 2015 18:20:39 GMT
Now, here is how I see the conflict. I have personal leanings but I will not let them affect the Clan as a whole. I am here to guide the clan and lead us and maintain stability and to help us prosper.
Traditionally we remain Neutral, selling information, boons or on occasion our support if the price is right.
Both sides effectively are arguing for the same thing. A stronger Camarilla.
Ultimately these choices should not be seen at this level. When residing in a city, theoretically our loyalty is due the Prince who accepted us into their city. So long as it upholds the traditions.
I suggest we remain Neutral, or at least as neutral as we can given payment for services. We each have the right to have our own personal views and act accordingly keeping in mind not to bring harm or damage to the Clan or another Nosferatu. We are stronger when we stand together. There is profit to be made from both sides.
In order to lead us into the coming nights I think perhaps we should discuss what each of you think, where you stand. What we discuss here and now concerning our personal views shall NOT be discussed outside this room. No individual shall be singled out for their views, no individuals views shall be mentioned to other clans. First and foremost we must stand together.
What are each of your thoughts on where the Nosferatu should stand? What are your personal thoughts about this conflict between inner circle and imperator? Can you provide a level of Neutrality when dealing outside the clan if it is not in accordance to the rest of the Clans wishes?
Remember I serve the Clan not the other way around. But it is through your support, effort and aid that I can best represent us.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 10:40:19 GMT
PERSONALLY I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU ARE SAYING, PRIMOGEN. THE JUSTICARS AND THEIR SERVANTS ARE CERTAINLY NOT PERFECT, BUT IF ANYONE HAS OVERSTEPPED THE BOUNDS OF THEIR AUTHORITY ITS THE IMPERATOR AND HIS MYRMIDONS. THE VERY FACT THAT THE MYRMIDONS ARE GENERALLY RECRUITED FROM KINDRED THAT WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE BEEN BLOODHUNTED GOES A LONG WAY TO REVEALING THE THUGGISH NATURE OF THEIR ORGANIZATION. THAT SAID I THINK IT WOULD BE PRUDENT TO REMAIN NEUTRAL - OR AT LEAST APPEAR SO - FOR NOW.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 10:43:36 GMT
If I had to make a choice right this moment I'd have to come down on the side of the Inner Circle, though my loyalties are primarily with Clan Nosferatu rather than the Camarilla as a whole. I'm thinking that given our close relations with Prince Vanhanen not many people are going to buy that we're truly neutral, which makes it all the more important for us to make a list of Imperator supporters and sympathizers. Any one of them could consider us an enemy just because of our connections with Edmonton.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 11:00:56 GMT
MY THOUGHTS AS TO WHO IS INNER CIRCLE AND WHO IS IMPERATOR ARE AS FOLLOWS:
HARDCORE INNER CIRCLE SUPPORTERS: ANTIONETTE VILLAREAL, ANGELINE NICODEMEUS, BARBARA WINDSOR, VICTORIA VON STEIN, VANESSA LE TOURNEAU, KASPAR ALSERGRUND, ELIJAH WINDSOR
INNER CIRCLE SYMPATHIZERS: BRYNN BARICELLI, DIANA WOLFSBLANE, INARA SHEPARD, JACK MCVITIE, JAQULINE LEBLANC, JEAN-LUC MARCHAND, HESS, MICHAEL DE LA ROSA, MALCOLM MULRIDGE, KYLE CANDLE
HARDCORE IMPERATOR SUPPORTERS: SAMUEL PICKENS, MACK
IMPERATOR SYMPATHIZERS: PRINCE ROBERT RICHTOR, CRIBBS, ALBUS LEPUS, EMPRESS MADNESS, GABRIEL, IMELDA JACOBS, JAMES DUNWHICH, RONAN FITZGERALD, VINCENT TORRENS, VLADAMIR RIDDLE, DIMITRI RANKOV, SOPHIA WOLFF, XAVIER WOLFF
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Post by Carrick Driscol on Sept 16, 2015 14:07:07 GMT
Bryce I fell you are right. NGAR has given us a great start to work from. Let us continue to refine his list and seek confirmation.
I am not sure about Gabriel or Dimitri. I think that perhaps they are both opportunists. Particularly Gabriel, I think they would go either way depending on what was needed to achieve their desires for power.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 14:55:12 GMT
I would agree with your assessment, Primogen. I think Dimitri is simply power hungry, while Gabriel seems interested in nothing but battle. He and the Myrmidon are cut from the same cloth.
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