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Post by Barbara Windsor on Apr 6, 2016 3:41:48 GMT
Mr. Drakos, as Master Harpy of Red Deer, as I am an Enforcer of status, I declare you Disgraced for misrepresentation of your status in a Primogen meeting. You were not Whip of your clan at the time, and in the absence of your Primogen would have temporarily held the status of Noble, had you actually been Whip.
You have been found Warned, and Disgraced in the Court of Red Deer. This means you are now effectively considered Forsaken.
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Post by Raphael De La Cruz on Apr 6, 2016 4:14:50 GMT
(OOC Not that it matters, but I believe that he is not Forsaken until he breaks the censure of Disgraced. Until then his Disgraced either lasts a month or until his Warned is gone in the case of multiple Warned statuses)
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Post by Jack McVitie on Apr 6, 2016 4:26:36 GMT
OCC Read the Forsaken entry section third paragraph under centure.
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Post by Raphael De La Cruz on Apr 6, 2016 5:03:39 GMT
(Yeah it says that normally a character cannot become forsaken unless first warned and then disgraced, not that they do become forsaken when both occur. If you look at the disgraced status it points out that one becomes forsaken when violates the censure.
In short two ways to become forsaken. Be Blood-Hunted and violated Disgrace censure.
I mean, forsaken is a super powerful thing. I don't think that the Keeper can effectively Blood Hunt someone by expending both statuses, that should be the Prince's and only the Prince's power.)
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Post by Barbara Windsor on Apr 6, 2016 5:13:48 GMT
He was first Warned by Inara, then Disgraced by myself. Which makes him Forsaken.
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Post by Jack McVitie on Apr 6, 2016 5:41:52 GMT
You've got to remember these charges must be within the purview of the Elysium (in the case of a Keeper) and violations of the Elysium are BIG issues. Not to mention that the violations must be in the correct order as well (i.e. Warned followed by disgraced). Lastly you may offer prestation to ask forgiveness for your transgressions although you might be refused (like in the case of a mouthy neonate beaking off a collection of Brujah). The Prince needs only to spend authority.
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Post by Raphael De La Cruz on Apr 6, 2016 5:47:48 GMT
(The way I read it could be wrong, but the alternative seems to grant the Keeper the authority to ash one Kindred per game (and be free from punishment) so long as it can be loosely connected to Elysium. Even during a breach you're supposed to eject/restrain.
Not saying you did that, just that it can set a dangerous rules precedent. But hey, if that's how it is then that's how it is. Maybe I'm alone in thinking that the possibility is a bit much.)
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Post by Barbara Windsor on Apr 6, 2016 5:56:38 GMT
Obviously any Keeper who did that sort of stuff every month would not find themselves Keeper for every long. Drakos was given every chance by Keeper, Sheriff, Harpy and the Primogen to pay recompense for his behaviour. He not only did NOT do that, but also chose to insult the ENTIRE court.
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Mack
Neonate
Loyal, Enforcer
Posts: 150 
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Post by Mack on Apr 6, 2016 10:03:07 GMT
((OOC: From Disgraced: If a character with the Disgraced status is found to break the censure of this status, she gains the additional status trait Forsaken. A character does not lose the negative status Warned or Disgraced when she becomes Forsaken.
From Forsaken: Normally a character cannot become Forsaken without first being Warned and then Disgraced. However, it is possible for some sect officers to declare an individual Forsaken as part of a formal hunt for that character's Final Death.
I believe these are the pertinent lines in this discussion. In my mind, Cory is right in this instance. everyone else seems to be taking the line in Forsaken as it's own qualification, when it is in fact referencing the method listed inside of Disgraced. Drakos must have broken the censure of Disgraced in order to become Forsaken, or made so by the prince as part of the declaration of a blood hunt.))
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Post by Michael on Apr 6, 2016 14:17:04 GMT
OOC) not necessarily a bad precedence. The Catch here is that characters have got away with far to much for far to long. In the case of Ellysiums heads need to roll for breaches. It is what keeps people from regularly breaking it as has happened. Is the knowledge that the keeper can kill them for a breach if he decides to.
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Post by Raphael De La Cruz on Apr 6, 2016 15:09:14 GMT
(People have consistently gotten away with way too much with regards to the Masquerade and Elysium for most of this game's lifespan.)
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