Mack
Neonate
Loyal, Enforcer
Posts: 150
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Post by Mack on May 16, 2016 22:45:46 GMT
Leopold are the hunters. Montgomery is what you're thinking of. More that it was run less like a coterie, and more like an organization, and the one in charge flipped the table, so to speak. But that's really beside the point.
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Post by Raphael De La Cruz on May 17, 2016 7:07:29 GMT
I will be leaving soon, a fact that I am sure wounds some of this court so very deeply. But if I may, a few parting words of advice.
The next time you wish to speak this way about an elder, take your discussion to a place where his neonates cannot read it. The Tremere are loyal to themselves first, and he will learn of what is spoken here. Granted it won't get any of you killed, but consequences will be felt.
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Nimrod
Member
HAELP!!!!
Posts: 66
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Post by Nimrod on May 17, 2016 15:21:04 GMT
'Dont talk about the Elders because the Elders could have informants'.
Thanks Tips.
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Post by Michael on May 17, 2016 17:15:39 GMT
Raphael. really?
First this is a private area for Neonates. Thus even if an Elder were insulted, which he wasn't, he would have no bases for expending his status to warn any of us.
Second, nothing has been spoken here that is some great demanding secret. The Laws and Traditions of the Camarilla and how they apply to us are no secret. Suggesting we stand up for our rights as given us for being members of the Camarilla is no crime.
Sharing learned knowledge about things that may endanger or cause our Prince to act in a strange manner again is no crime.
You sound more like a paranoid Anarch.
Napolean Orsini is an upstanding neonate who shows respect to his elders and the structure as dictated by his clan. He to has rights and though Kaspar has power over him in Clan matters he is still a Camarilla member and has rights just as you and I do. I am sure he enjoys being able to converse with all of us and get some freedom now and again. As we hold any words he may choose to speak in trust I am sure he will do the same. Assuming, we say anything "controversial".
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Post by Napoleon Orsini on May 17, 2016 18:03:54 GMT
Also consider that Allen Smithee has returned and is also, I believe, once again one of "Kaspar's neonates". And consider that I am, in fact, torn to a certain extent regarding these matters. As Smithee and myself (among others such as the dearly departed and sadly missed Torrens) have long known ever since our earliest nights as base apprentices, the same rights and freedoms we all purportedly enjoy de jure; that is, according to law on paper are not always the same de facto; that is, in actual daily practice. I do not know if this is common knowledge amongst all of you, but by merely existing Smithee and I and, indeed all Tremere everywhere are well on the way to blood bond with all our elders. Without divulging the pertinent details, of course, a major component of our Embrace includes taking the blood of the Seven, the founding members of the clan and the highest tier of the Pyramid we all serve. We begin our unlife with such a bond, with blood peculiar to forming such bonds in the first place. Now, we all had to do this so it's not like this confers any undue advantage. I did it, and I presume Smithee and the others including Kaspar had to as well. That I did it quite willingly and gladly for the power is besides the point and water long under the bridge by this point. Now having said this, allow me to propose a hypothetical situation: if you believe Kaspar capable and willing to do what you speculate, if he was somehow able to hold someone like the Prince in such thrall (and I am honestly not privy to the depth and/or breadth of his personal abilities), how much more then might he do to, say, persons much more firmly under his jurisdiction? What bonds of blood and compulsion might such persons labour under, with only the will to power enabling them to speak out? I only say this to make it clear to all of you exactly what you may be dealing with, as a courtesy. We may not be "informants" in the sense that we wish active malice with intent upon any of you, but that's not always an active choice we might be able to make. That said, we have no problems aiding any of you and/or conducting the business of our kind so long as it does not threaten the salient interests of the Chantry. Where our superiors are concerned, we do (un?)fortunately have more than one master, with all the possible internal conflict and hand wringing that implies to some degree. I can say for myself that I do not personally hold any malice or animus towards any of you, and am concerned only with the welfare of the Chantry and the city (in that order). Thankfully, so far those concerns have happily intersected. On the day that they do not? Well, I suppose we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, but you know where I must stand that day. Hypothetically speaking, of course. At one point in recent mortal history, there were grave misgivings in many countries about allowing Roman Catholics into high public office, the thought being much the same; that they would be beholden to more than one master and the Pope and the Vatican might have undue influence in temporal affairs. This was a major strike against John F. Kennedy in some circles, yet there he sat for a time. I'm sure you can draw similar parallels with us. (OOC: I may or may not have been burning mad Willpower to even say any of this to you. Why would I feel like I needed to do that, I wonder. 'Tis cause for speculation, no doubt. Cue knowingly winking emoji )
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Post by Michael on May 17, 2016 18:42:22 GMT
Well spoken Master Orsini.
I for one hold no malice towards the Tremere nor would I hinder you in your goals. My concerns are in ensuring that the rights we hold under the banner of the Camarilla are indeed ours. I seek not to hurt the Chantry, nor even your Regent. I seek to correct abuses and misunderstanding of Camarilla Protocols so that we may all benefit. To enlighten those of us who have not had the benefit of the education I have received by the grace of my Sire. Garnered at no small cost from Elders world wide.
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Post by Napoleon Orsini on May 17, 2016 18:59:31 GMT
Of course, good master M'Kael, I did not mean to imply otherwise. I too also spoke merely to enlighten, to underscore that not all of us are able to enjoy the same degree of egalitarian solidarity as some are able to, some of us have additional... hierarchical concerns.
That having been said, perhaps I'll just leave this other hypothetical situation here: the pyramid cuts both ways, unless you are at its apex, and its apex is in Vienna, not Red Deer. The tier upon which one as lowly as I resides has bosses, but there are plenty more bosses to go around, all the way up the line. Unless your name is Tremere, the bosses yet have bosses of their own to answer to. Hypothetically speaking.
(OOC: Aaand there goes another willpower.)
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