Clarifying the Breach of Domain

From what little I have managed to garner over my short life as a kindred, I can honestly say that the amount of domain being granted is extraordinary (and I state this as a general principle not a slight against any kindred of the city whom I have no doubts earned it).

In my experience Domain is usually (or rather rarely) granted to Elders only and is considered to be their Haven, with fundamentally no difference.

The granting of the Chantry as Domain of Clan Tremere (while a common sense example) serves as a good representation to this.

Elysiums (with no offense to Harpy Windsor) are by definition open to all kindred. The act of granting domain in a circular area around that Elysium flies in the face of Kindred customs as it effectively blocks kindred from entering that area.
(My personal admiration to Elder Windsor for publicly stating that others may pass through her domain to reach this location)

I believe that if one examines other cities surfaces they will find that Domain typically granted by the Prince can be found in three places.

1 - Chantry

2 - Havens of Elders (which typically encompass a single building that is not a public service or public access building)

3 - Outside of the city where a princes immediate power is not centralized.

Should roadways or public buildings be granted as a Kindreds domain;
Custom would dictate that formal representation and invitation be sought to enter or traverse these areas.
As Elder Alsergrund points out this service is usually qualified with the granting of a trivial or minor boon.
If the city hall is considered the domain of a kindred, then each time one went to pay a parking ticket they would, by Camarilla customs be expected to grant the domain holder a trivial or minor boon.

To put it bluntly, this type of expectation would cause kindred to leave the city in droves as they had to choose between leaving or becoming boon debtors. (which is why it is not done)

I understand the concept of 'using common sense' however that process only works as long as both parties are in agreement and on hospitable terms.

Should either party wish it, we must default to the laws of our sect.
Which state that Domain is ones personal haven and none save the Prince, or Sheriff (and only if on specific duty for the Prince) can enter it.

Domain is not Feeding grounds, but indeed supersedes them, which itself would add another level of complexity to this problem.
As would the concept of domain holders laws (which while second to the Princes, whom they cannot contradict) are still law within that domain.
A final level of complexity would be the adjudication of those laws and punishment for them.
As the domain laws are punishable by the domain holder and the curiosities of a city by its Prince, Sect Laws are punishable by all levels of authority.
If these punishments for the various levels of infringement and violation are not met than by sect law those punishments become the disgrace of the Kindred within whose domain the breach was commenced.

This would mean that should a kindred with the right status, violate a curiosity within a domain, but claim that no such violation occurred. The Sheriff would not be allowed to investigate.
If this breach was then provable, but the kindred in question was no where to be found, the breach would become the disgrace of the Sheriff for not finding and punishing the committer unless they punished the holder of the larger domain (the Prince).
If this punishment was not publicly held in the domain of the (now vanished kindred) with them present to oversee their own punishment then it would become a 'disgrace' to the larger domain in which that sub-domain was held and the kindred whose domain that was.
This would mean that by sect law, the Prince (and arguably all kindred whom haven within his domain) would be disgraced by the technical rules of our Sect without a method of countering it (as such a punishment would require a Justicar to oversee it).
Unless the Prince was publicly punished by sect law;
By their own Sheriff,
on their own authority,
with a punishment set out by the holder of the sub-domain (who committed the violation and has since been proven but disappeared)


Since upholding our Sects laws is of key importance to all kindred, I am sure that the more learned in these laws than myself have spotted this niggle and are (rightly concerned) with the issues it presents.

-Lt. Nick Stone - Ancilla of Clan Toreador