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Post by Kaspar Alsergrund on Jun 16, 2016 14:55:50 GMT
Does anyone know if the bestower of Status can strip that Status from whom they bestowed it upon? For example, if ORSINI is no longer Favoured by Kaspar, does Kaspar have the right to strip him of it, or will it leave when ORSINI chooses to spend it. If so, where in the book is that?
It was always something that was inherent in the granting of the Status, but, that seems to be something that was overlooked in this edition.
There are just so many examples of times when that might be required. Status like, Loyal, Courageous, Courteous, Honourable all are examples that should be strippable by the individual that gave them.
Disgracing someone is the only way, but that has nothing to do with the bestower no longer wishing the carrier to be using his/her name.
If it is not in the book, can I get an ST ruling on it?
Thanks,
Robert
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Post by Napoleon Orsini on Jun 16, 2016 16:49:08 GMT
Well in the case of Favored, applying Disgraced would force the expenditure of Favored to cancel it (or else live with the Disgraced). But otherwise they would cancel each other out, so from a mechanical standpoint that would seem to address the issue of no longer using the benefactor's name. The descriptions of Disgraced (and to a lesser degree, Warned) in the book do sound like appropriate responses for such public embarrassment as in the case of Favored the conduct in question could be seen to also reflect on the benefactor. If the recipient was not acting appropriately, the benefactors judgment could be questioned for bestowing their favor on an unworthy recipient. So for their own sake they would absolutely have to take some measure to manage that situation or be tainted by association. Look how fast sponsors drop fallen athletes, for example. That's just my interpretation, of course.
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Post by Napoleon Orsini on Jun 16, 2016 16:52:41 GMT
So really, any negative status at all that you have the power to give would erase the favored as it cancels the negative before it is applied when expended.
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Mack
Neonate
Loyal, Enforcer
Posts: 150
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Post by Mack on Jun 16, 2016 17:21:49 GMT
If they choose to expend it, anyways. Could always just take the warned or vulgar for a month, save the favoured for a better use.
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Post by Kaspar Alsergrund on Jun 16, 2016 17:30:14 GMT
Using the Negative Status of Vulgar or Warned doesn't really do that job though, as those are Camarilla sins as opposed to personal affronts.
If Kaspar no longer wants to Favour Napoleon there is no mechanism to remove it.
- Vulgar - All Fleeting for one night, not just the specific Status bestowed - and if Kaspar did it for personal reasons the Harpy would find it Scandalous - and only Noble can Vulgar someone - Warned - also get Vulgar but again Camarilla-oriented sins
The bestower should be able to remove for their own reasons, not necessarily for Camarilla-based reasons.
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Post by Napoleon Orsini on Jun 16, 2016 18:07:34 GMT
Vulgar and Warned were from Mack's example. I suggested Disgraced, does that not work assuming the Favored is expended to negate it? The rationale behind issuing Disgraced seems sound, as in "your activities have placed a stain on your reputation" and by extension on the benefactor's rep in the case of Favored. This scenario does depend more on the recipient playing along and expending the status at the time.
It is not the actual censure stripping Napoleon of said status, rather his response to the censure that does, all in a nice neat little circle so far as I can see. So the only hiccup is of course, would he indeed play along and do so?
Well, I would point out that Napoleon is the most obsequious toady of all the toadies in an extremely hierarchical system. As I understand him to be, the very last thing he wants is to be looked upon negatively by his peers and more importantly his superiors. He would absolutely do as much as possible to remove any negative censure as soon as practicable. He isn't trying to save up status as an ace in the hole for a later scheme, they are badges of honor that he proudly displays as tokens of appreciation from his betters. He doesn't even have schemes, his schemes are to further the schemes of those above him. I see much of Grima Wormtongue from Lord of the Rings in him, as I understand him. Just my two cents on the matter, this is quite invigorating to be honest.
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Post by Michael on Jun 16, 2016 18:11:19 GMT
I would say that yes you can. Giving someone status is putting your name and reputation behind them. If they screw up and they are favored by you then your reputation is also on the line.
When positions change you could simply choose not to re-issue/carry it over.
If you gave someone loyal then I would think you could just go to the Harpy and say you are choosing not to recognize it anymore thus negating it from them.
Theoretically a Harpy can strip any status someone has if they feel it isn't warranted. If there is disagreement on loosing that status then the Harpy could simply impose a Major Status ban and Warned and so forth. If the individual who looses the status feels otherwise they could call for a Murder of Harpies to convene and hope to have it overturned.
Perhaps ultimately when it comes to game play it is what the Harpy is willing to allow and if they can manage it IC.
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Post by Michael on Jun 16, 2016 18:13:21 GMT
Fleeting status according to by Night was meant to be fluid except for a precious one or two. Used, expended and regained.
Expending Acclaimed to gain insight from a court officer, in my view shows you probably deserve to have it re-issued if it was worthwhile information.
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Post by Napoleon Orsini on Jun 16, 2016 19:21:19 GMT
Well, I'll relent if we can come up with a viable in game reason to remove it that is legit with all concerned. Heck; make it a scene at game, we can honestly advertise: next gathering, LIVE STRIPPERS!!! (Or stripping, I guess, as the case may be.) I can wear my best sackcloth and ashes and crawl up to Shane on my knees begging forgiveness, on the condition that Lexi follows three steps behind me ringing an iron bell and chanting shame...*ring*...shame...*ring*... shame.
Ok I'm mostly kidding. Not really, I would totally do that.
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Nimrod
Member
HAELP!!!!
Posts: 66
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Post by Nimrod on Jun 16, 2016 20:33:38 GMT
Rawr?
Somebody say Strippers?
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Inara Shepard
Ancilla
Dont. Poke. The. God. Damn. Bear.
Posts: 378
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Post by Inara Shepard on Jun 16, 2016 20:58:11 GMT
Strippers? I'm so there. And the shame thing? Someone bring a bell. Haha.
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Post by Napoleon Orsini on Jun 16, 2016 21:04:19 GMT
To be clear, while I myself am all for body positivity and am personally quite confident in my own physique, I would do this clothed for all our sakes. There will be no actual strippers, not by my hand anyway. None of you could handle my burlesque chair routine. (Which as an aside, I believe they actually offer that across the street from the hall. )
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Mack
Neonate
Loyal, Enforcer
Posts: 150
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Post by Mack on Jun 16, 2016 21:59:08 GMT
I don't see any reason why we couldn't simply remove status given with suitable reason, book mentions or no. It certainly seems like something they assumed, if it isn't directly stated in there.
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Post by Napoleon Orsini on Jun 16, 2016 23:27:53 GMT
Well yes Mack, but then I can't do my poignant march of shame. Come on, you can even line up the court in a gauntlet I have to run while you throw rotten lettuce and kick me. Just try to avoid the face, I'm pretty.
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