Hess
Neonate
Posts: 43 
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Post by Hess on Oct 19, 2015 19:10:12 GMT
It confuses me.
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Alix
Elder
Posts: 109
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Post by Alix on Oct 19, 2015 19:39:13 GMT
The only exception to that was stated that only new nos may be elders.
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Post by Jack McVitie on Nov 7, 2015 17:22:32 GMT
So Serge if you're reading this is the Nos avenue closed now? Cuz I would say three is enough. I would personally like to see a more balanced population at the gathering.
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Inara Shepard
Ancilla
Dont. Poke. The. God. Damn. Bear.
Posts: 378 
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Post by Inara Shepard on Nov 7, 2015 18:29:34 GMT
I agree with jack/James.
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Mack
Neonate
Loyal, Enforcer
Posts: 150
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Post by Mack on Nov 8, 2015 2:42:19 GMT
Well, judging from Carrick's last announcement, it sounds like it will be back to two for at least a little while. Not that I don't feel the same way, but my character runs under the assumption that there's some nos always listening in anyways.
The amount of 'fuck you' Obfuscate around is mildly annoying, but ultimately not that impactfull, I feel. It might become so if there's too many more, but in terms of Clan spread, we could definitely use a bit more variety. Seems like most of the court has distilled down to about three clans at the moment, with a few outliers.
I'd also like to see a bit more of a divide between generation inside of the clans. For the most part, each clan with multiple members is either all elders with maybe one younger, or all younger with maybe one elder. This could just be a problem with general attendance though, I don't know the exact numbers. I'd like to think that with enough people, each with personal preferences and play styles, that we'd actually find a pretty good spread.
EDIT: As an addendum, I don't feel that elders are inherently more powerful than neonates, given a similar xp total. Elders tend to be one trick ponies, at least around here. Take them out of their element, and they become useless pretty quick. And it's gotta be a damn lucky night for nearly any elder to stand up to a concerted group attack, when done right.
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Post by Carrick Driscol on Nov 8, 2015 20:44:03 GMT
Exactly!!
People playing Elders recently have done so not because they are more powerful, it is because of the extra 3 status. BUT, even that is not being played quite right. Learn what status someone has and trap them within it.
Also, you can have a 8th gen neonate or a 13th gen. Doesn't really matter if the points are the same.
Characters need to work together to accomplish something and do so in game, not always away from game.
Pat of the game and fun is in character conflicts. Some characters are jerks and will throw their weight around and be dicks. Some supportive. But ultimately a LARP is about playing your character at game. Between game stuff should be supportive or story actions that add to what is going to happen at game.
Just remember people are not their characters. They are behaving as their character would towards your character which is not you.
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Post by Carrick Driscol on Nov 8, 2015 20:46:17 GMT
Oh, if someone has status, learn what they can do with it. When you know what they can and can not do with it you can also trap people with it. There are certain requirements with it also. Set them up, force them into a situation where they have to expend it.
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Post by Jack McVitie on Nov 8, 2015 21:16:21 GMT
Yes, but characters are formed by the environment just as much as the characters they interact with. The game environment should be neonate heavy but it isn't. This is frankly due to people preferring to play the big fish rather than the small. Can't completely blame them but without restrictions the environment can become lopsided. Just watch if Serge took away the clan restrictions what would happen then every idiot who wanted to play some stupid weird ass clan would do so. Now I'm not saying that this is what has happened but the elder trend is noticeable and should be curbed. You can talk about roleplaying around the issue but the ultimately it is better set boundaries and adhere to them.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2015 21:57:53 GMT
If we want to get into what should be happening according to the Cannon we'll be here all day. We already deviate so much from how the books describe vampire society this discussion seems a little pedantic tbh.
I mean our Gangrel attend Elysium, neonates hold positions of power and status, there's a Tremere prince etc.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2015 22:12:51 GMT
Here's some metrics for those who are interested.
Population with Npc's
13 Elders
11 ancilla
19 neotnates
Without Npc's (and at least semi-active players)
Elders - 11
Ancilla -4
Neonates -9
So while Elysium might seem a bit off (which also makes sense, seeing as its the playground of the Elders), our population numbers as far as generation and rank goes are not wildly different from some of the By-Night setting books.
Edit: We also break open the Kindred to Kine ratio wide open as well. Our presence is a massive breach according to the lore.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2015 22:19:29 GMT
The bottom line is we're all here to tell a good story and have fun. If Serge feels that having 3-4 more Elders than we should (or whatever) inhibits that, he's free to make a rule restricting them.
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Hess
Neonate
Posts: 43
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Post by Hess on Nov 8, 2015 22:58:44 GMT
if it's the playground of elders, why have any other type of character?
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Post by Jack McVitie on Nov 8, 2015 23:09:43 GMT
Actually Cory I will say what you said above does have many valid points. I agree gatherings would be elder heavy does give the game latitude somewhat in that respect. The stats you've come up with are broken down into total# to Generation vs. total#-NPC to Generation I'm glad you've given us both numbers recognizing that the first number only reflects the environment which Serge can breath into them on the boards. Therefore the second set is the one which reflects the majority of our gaming experience.
I guess this is the point at which I disagree. Yes we can talk about the fact that Gangrel are allowed into the gatherings, we have far too many kindred vs. population of the city etc... Those are allowances that are made so that people can participate and to make the game viable. Otherwise we wouldn't have a game in Red Deer due to lack of population. However what we are talking about here is not a game crippling aspect but rather an aspect which will allows all players to feel more a part of mixture of characters rather than outsiders looking in.
You know how it is discouraged that meetings of large numbers of important people go on for too long; a similar principle applies here only rather in a sociological sense. Boundaries and structure are good, closed doors are mysteries unto themselves but ultimately a diversity of participants all able to contribute in there own way makes for a better game. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2015 23:17:04 GMT
Trevor, one would assume that you might play a character that does not want to play on that level and/or has other goals that don't involve jockeying for status or a court position, or maybe you'd like to play the struggling rise of someone into that realm. Maybe you like playing a pawn of the Elders.
While neonates are certainly welcome to attend, curry favor, or simply just to have a safe space to meet, the writers of past WoD books have clearly indicated that Elysium is where Elders do their social dirt, so to speak.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2015 23:22:06 GMT
Actually Cory I will say what you said above does have many valid points. I agree gatherings would be elder heavy does give the game latitude somewhat in that respect. The stats you've come up with are broken down into total# to Generation vs. total#-NPC to Generation I'm glad you've given us both numbers recognizing that the first number only reflects the environment which Serge can breath into them on the boards. Therefore the second set is the one which reflects the majority of our gaming experience.
I guess this is the point at which I disagree. Yes we can talk about the fact that Gangrel are allowed into the gatherings, we have far too many kindred vs. population of the city etc... Those are allowances that are made so that people can participate and to make the game viable. Otherwise we wouldn't have a game in Red Deer due to lack of population. However what we are talking about here is not a game crippling aspect but rather an aspect which will allows all players to feel more a part of mixture of characters rather than outsiders looking in.
You know how it is discouraged that meetings of large numbers of important people go on for too long; a similar principle applies here only rather in a sociological sense. Boundaries and structure are good, closed doors are mysteries unto themselves but ultimately a diversity of participants all able to contribute in there own way makes for a better game. I get what you're saying James, but has our current situation prevented the Neonates from engaging with the game and having fun? I don't honestly know for sure, but it seems like they've been quite successful. As far as I can see, this issue seems to be more a question of how the game feels. If it is truly an issue, there is an upcoming opportunity for Elders characters to retire if need be. |
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